|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Lei YingLu
Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation
2
|
Posted - 2017.02.26 22:52:30 -
[1] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:
We can look at RFF and we see that traditionally they fail very few contracts. Some are failed due to suicide ganks. So, prudent players will likely be fine more than 99% of the time.
I believe that you can use Red Frog's data but you have to look at much more than that to get the whole picture. Go to their website. Plastered on the front page it reads Burn Jita is in effect. They are well aware that if they bring a freighter/jump freighter to Jita it's probably going to die to the player ran event. I like to call this situational awareness. Beyond that look at Red Frog's FAQ. They have standard operating procedures that they follow. More than likely these things are going to keep them from becoming a loot pinyata.
CCP Phantom also provided us with guidance as far as conduct in Eve HERE
* You consent to PvP when you click "undock".
* You are not safe in 1.0 security space. CONCORD is there to punish, not to protect. Get used to the idea.
You want to talk about the mechanics being different for those who are career criminals once they go negative to a certain point. That is already in effect. The faction police spawn and will kill your ship if you stay in one place for too long and/or if you are too slow to get into warp, you ship will be blown up. |
Lei YingLu
Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation
2
|
Posted - 2017.02.26 23:20:12 -
[2] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:
Absolutely. I would argue that is part of being a prudent player. Be aware of these things. I am taking my JF NOWHERE near Jita this weekend. You guys would be on me like stink on **** (even though we were once blue...I'm not now so I'd be fair game...which I have no issue with).
Hell at past Burn events there'd be people along the routes saying "Turn back...they are killing all freighters" and the freighters would head right into the meat grinder, some even on autopilot.
Exactly. You can't fix stupid.
As far as for the OP I would invite you to try ganking yourself. Learn the mechanics and you will learn that not all is as you seem. There as alot more to just sit there and shoot and some pubbie at random. If you really feel that my end of things is as broken and lop sided as you depict, this experience will enlighten you to what it is like and that there is alot you have to deal with to be able to get that juicy kill. It will also enlighten you to the stupidity of people. Would you haul 7 billion in an anti tanked T1 hauler? Maybe not but people do it. And that is why they get themselves blown up. |
Lei YingLu
Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2017.02.26 23:32:39 -
[3] - Quote
NightmareX wrote:NightmareX wrote:All i see here is butthurt gankers that doesn't want to get their easy life of ganking over and over in the infinite loop to be harder and being butthurt that someone have an idea on a system that actually punishes the criminals harder the more they do crimes every day, like the law enforcement always have handled criminals in the first place. And being butthurt over someone explaining you gankers that you don't understand the concept of how criminals are supposed to be treated.
I mean, you are a freaking CRIMINAL to begin with. You are not supposed to be able to continue the criminal activity that easy the more you do it. It should be harder to do the crimes the more you do it.
And this is EXACTLY what you can't even explain why it shouldn't be in the game. It doesn't affect ganking at all. It just affect the challenge of continuing doing it the more you do crimes every day. All you have as an lame excuse is that 'it's a game' and 'this is not how things works'.
News @ 11. Even though things isn't working like that now, what prevents it from being like that by changing the game for the better for everyone in the future?
Remember, a criminal is supposed to be treated as a criminal and not like it is now with the only insanely low 15 minute Concord timer. I feel that i need to quote myself here, because no one seems to be willing to counter argument what i'm saying here. I wonder why? Yes, please explain to me why criminals shouldn't be treated as criminals in EVE?
How are we not? Lets go to the OP's original statement surrounding the -10 Sec status. At that point ANY pilot may freely engage your ship/pod. In addition to that you are limited in what you are able to fly due to the faction police spawning and chasing you to kill your ship so therefore you have to fly small/fast ships and you also lose the ability to cloak. |
Lei YingLu
Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation
4
|
Posted - 2017.02.26 23:42:50 -
[4] - Quote
NightmareX wrote:Wander Prian wrote:NightmareX wrote:Wander Prian wrote:Well, since they are criminals, you could go and hunt them as the devs have made that possible? I mean, I am pretty sure that is the reason you can shoot criminals freely? How does that help to shoot the criminals when that already are to late as they in 99% of all cases have killed their target before i can do something about the criminal? This is why it should be harder for the actual criminals to continue doing it the more they do it as it's impossible to prevent a gank before it's to late for the target they are suiciding on anyways. If your security status falls low enough, you can be shot without you having any timers on. Hence I used the word "criminal" and not " a player with criminal timers" But how does removing a criminal for 15 minutes help in this case AT ALL when they are back doing the same thing over and over and over every 15 mins?
That debate can go either way, I could ask for a 5 minute timer while those who are on the wrong end of it are asking for an hour. Almost every single timer in the game is 15 minutes or less. The exception being the Jump Fatigue timer. |
Lei YingLu
Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation
4
|
Posted - 2017.02.26 23:54:28 -
[5] - Quote
NightmareX wrote:Lei YingLu wrote:That debate can go either way, I could ask for a 5 minute timer while those who are on the wrong end of it are asking for an hour. Almost every single timer in the game is 15 minutes or less. The exception being the Jump Fatigue timer. There should be a jump fatigue type of timer for criminals. The more you jump, the more jump fatigue you get. It should be the same for committing crimes. The more you commit crimes, the more timer you get against Concord. And the more crimes you have done to, the more harsher the police will be against you to. That's how it should be, because criminals are still criminals and nothing else.
Not necessarily, I gank with another one of my characters that has a positive sec status. So if you consider that for committing a crime while I have a negative sec status I should get a longer timer so by that logic I should be able to have a shorter timer because I don't have a criminal sec status. |
Lei YingLu
Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation
5
|
Posted - 2017.02.27 00:20:15 -
[6] - Quote
If a mouse is given a cookie, he is bound to want some milk. If he is given the milk, what will he want next?
Quoted from a children's book. The problem being that yes say some or everything you want at the point in time CCP implements. Even after that people will be still crying for nerfs to ganking until ganking is no longer able to be performed in HS. Only then will people stop crying about ganking. |
Lei YingLu
Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation
6
|
Posted - 2017.02.27 00:31:01 -
[7] - Quote
Erich Einstein wrote:Lei YingLu wrote:If a mouse is given a cookie, he is bound to want some milk. If he is given the milk, what will he want next?
Quoted from a children's book. The problem being that yes say some or everything you want at the point in time CCP implements. Even after that people will be still crying for nerfs to ganking until ganking is no longer able to be performed in HS. Only then will people stop crying about ganking. Sorry, I agree with ganking... but yet im the OP owner... weird.
I wasnt talking about you more as the game as a whole. If CCP was going to grant your wish of how ganking mechanics should be, they'd have to listen to the next guy right? Then that guy is going to want even more stringent controls on ganking until it is no longer a thing. There is always someone who's not going to like something and want the game to be changed to suit their needs/wishes. I respect the fact that you didnt request an outright ban on ganking. As far as the Alpha clones not being able to do so I dont agree. I think that they should be able to enjoy every different style of play in the game. Now do I think that an Alpha should be able to sit on the Jita undock with a tornado? No. |
Lei YingLu
Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation
6
|
Posted - 2017.02.27 00:50:14 -
[8] - Quote
Okay, I'll bite. Criminals in real life based off of the crime they commit are given a punishment of jail time based off of laws put in place. Every crime has a set standard punishment as far as minimum and maximum. This is very much the same in Eve. Eve has put down standard consequences based off of different crimes committed. Because the game doesn't treat podding someone like 1st degree murder is treated in real life doesn't mean that there are not consequences. |
Lei YingLu
Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation
7
|
Posted - 2017.02.27 01:02:06 -
[9] - Quote
Erich Einstein wrote:Lei YingLu wrote:Erich Einstein wrote:Lei YingLu wrote:If a mouse is given a cookie, he is bound to want some milk. If he is given the milk, what will he want next?
Quoted from a children's book. The problem being that yes say some or everything you want at the point in time CCP implements. Even after that people will be still crying for nerfs to ganking until ganking is no longer able to be performed in HS. Only then will people stop crying about ganking. Sorry, I agree with ganking... but yet im the OP owner... weird. I wasnt talking about you more as the game as a whole. If CCP was going to grant your wish of how ganking mechanics should be, they'd have to listen to the next guy right? Then that guy is going to want even more stringent controls on ganking until it is no longer a thing. There is always someone who's not going to like something and want the game to be changed to suit their needs/wishes. I respect the fact that you didnt request an outright ban on ganking. As far as the Alpha clones not being able to do so I dont agree. I think that they should be able to enjoy every different style of play in the game. Now do I think that an Alpha should be able to sit on the Jita undock with a tornado? No. They are not granting my wishes according to ganking. They are fixing their broke ass security status / faction police system so that it does something meaningful. Goon fleet gankers have shown that it does not work for their type of criminal behavior.
The fact that when faction police are chasing you, you cannot fly anything cruiser or higher as more than likely it will be shot before you could get to an intended target is not meaningful? Imagine the destruction that would ensue if you could that same fleet of 120 people and turn it into 4 talos fleets. So yes ganking with 100+ people in a fleet with destroyers is possible but with Faction Police it greatly reduces your options as far as being able to kill something. |
Lei YingLu
Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation
7
|
Posted - 2017.02.27 01:10:29 -
[10] - Quote
NightmareX wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Erich Einstein wrote:Lei YingLu wrote:Okay, I'll bite. Criminals in real life based off of the crime they commit are given a punishment of jail time based off of laws put in place. Every crime has a set standard punishment as far as minimum and maximum. This is very much the same in Eve. Eve has put down standard consequences based off of different crimes committed. Because the game doesn't treat podding someone like 1st degree murder is treated in real life doesn't mean that there are not consequences. Ever heard of three strikes and you are out. This applies to repeat offenders. RL is not as generous as EVE. You can adjust the hit you take for podding in lowsec along with the OP, I have no problem with that. But technically, you shouldnt be podding in lowsec if you dont want to hurt your security status. Maybe because it is a game and meant to be fun. Well if you have the right attitude. So the game can only be fun for the gankers? Do you think it's fun for the freighter pilots who basicly can die every 15 minutes to some ganking because there is no system in EVE that gives the gankers more penalty the more they gank?
There is more penalty, the lower my sec status goes, the less area's that I can go with out being hunted by Faction Police and eventually being able to be freely attacked anywhere in the game by everyone. This is all in addition to the kill rights that people receive and have every opportunity for a period of 30 days to hunt my ass down and kill me. The more people I kill the more of those I have as well. My point is and was in the quote portion earlier is that there are set consequences just like there is in real life that you keep trying to compare this to. |
|
Lei YingLu
Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation
8
|
Posted - 2017.02.27 01:21:30 -
[11] - Quote
NightmareX wrote:Lei YingLu wrote:There is more penalty, the lower my sec status goes, the less area's that I can go with out being hunted by Faction Police and eventually being able to be freely attacked anywhere in the game by everyone. This is all in addition to the kill rights that people receive and have every opportunity for a period of 30 days to hunt my ass down and kill me. The more people I kill the more of those I have as well. My point is and was in the quote portion earlier is that there are set consequences just like there is in real life that you keep trying to compare this to. Ehh ok? You can still fly around in high sec in a Destroyer with a -10 sec status. All you have to make sure is that no one tackles you before you enters warp. But that's relatively easy to avoid. The fact is that if you are categotized as an outlaw (-5 or lower), you shouldn't be able to be sitting in a ship (except for a Shuttle) while being in high sec. Yes, you have to use an alt or other friends to be able to get your newly bought ships out of Jita and high sec in the same way as freighter pilots have to use a bunch of alt or friends all the time according to you to be able to do their business. So don't you think it would be fair that way towards the gankers to that they will need alts or others to be able to keep doing their crimes with new ships and so on?
Again, there are consequences. But it is not absolute. You get a DUI you lose the ability to drive a car, not to ride a bike. |
Lei YingLu
Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation
9
|
Posted - 2017.02.27 01:34:03 -
[12] - Quote
Erich Einstein wrote:Lei YingLu wrote:NightmareX wrote:Lei YingLu wrote:There is more penalty, the lower my sec status goes, the less area's that I can go with out being hunted by Faction Police and eventually being able to be freely attacked anywhere in the game by everyone. This is all in addition to the kill rights that people receive and have every opportunity for a period of 30 days to hunt my ass down and kill me. The more people I kill the more of those I have as well. My point is and was in the quote portion earlier is that there are set consequences just like there is in real life that you keep trying to compare this to. Ehh ok? You can still fly around in high sec in a Destroyer with a -10 sec status. All you have to make sure is that no one tackles you before you enters warp. But that's relatively easy to avoid. The fact is that if you are categotized as an outlaw (-5 or lower), you shouldn't be able to be sitting in a ship (except for a Shuttle) while being in high sec. Yes, you have to use an alt or other friends to be able to get your newly bought ships out of Jita and high sec in the same way as freighter pilots have to use a bunch of alt or friends all the time according to you to be able to do their business. So don't you think it would be fair that way towards the gankers to that they will need alts or others to be able to keep doing their crimes with new ships and so on? Again, there are consequences. But it is not absolute. You get a DUI you lose the ability to drive a car, not to ride a bike. which is equivalent to an instant warping pod or shuttle, not a gank ship.
Yes, but a tornado is also a gank ship. But one of the things I personally like about Eve is the people evolve to what the game makers give them. Being a ganker (95% solo) I like AG. It makes things alot more interesting and fun. One of my favorite things to do is to initiate the gank knowing AG is there just to see if they can stop me. I like the fact that you can use destroyers still with a -10 because that gives the ganker a little bit of room in a world where everyone can stop you and all it would take is one person, yet what do most people do? Stand by and watch. |
Lei YingLu
Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation
10
|
Posted - 2017.02.27 01:39:52 -
[13] - Quote
@OP So using this weekend as I'm assuming that is mostly what you are referring to in relation to the post and comments. But for arguments sake, how many of those freighters that died this weekend were triple bulkhead fit? |
Lei YingLu
Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation
10
|
Posted - 2017.02.27 01:57:15 -
[14] - Quote
Erich Einstein wrote:Lei YingLu wrote:@OP So using this weekend as I'm assuming that is mostly what you are referring to in relation to the post and comments. But for arguments sake, how many of those freighters that died this weekend were triple bulkhead fit? Check my corp and twitch videos and see what I do on the daily. I by all means am excluding this past burn jita event from the OP. This goon ganking (and I mean big fleets, not little miner ganking) has gone on repeatedly for for the last few month. Sure there has always been ganking, but goons are taking it to a new level staging out of Jita V - moon 17 station. Nothing to do with burn jita event. I havnt even logged in since the burn Jita event started. Look up all of the people who operate from that staging area on zkill and you will see just how much ganking isk they are getting away with. Follow them for a day and you will see just how hard it is to prevent anything they are doing. AG cant even prevent a freighter from being bumped without going criminal and just have to watch freighters burn to the ground like they are frigates.
If you wouldnt mind, could you please reference me to a few kills? |
Lei YingLu
Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation
10
|
Posted - 2017.02.27 02:12:05 -
[15] - Quote
NightmareX wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:NightmareX wrote: How does my idea of the said criminal system i have been talking about prevents the freighters from being ganked any lesser or make it a lesser risk of getting ganked?
Really you need me to spell it out for you? Okay. Lots of gankers have -10 status. They'd have to, at a minimum stop ganking and go to NS to repair their status or use tags, which would be quite an ISK burden. So that would likely necessitate additional income. This would mean more time ratting or other ISK making opportunities or limiting freighter ganking to more economically viable ones. Either way....the overall effect is less ganking. Bottom line: make something more costly (in terms of ISK, time, or both) you tend to get less of it. No, a -10 pilot can easily jump into high sec in a Destroyer and then gank someone as long as he's smart to jump into a high sec system where he wont be tackled by anyone. And that's also another problem. An outlaw shouldn't be able to jump into high sec in anything bigger than a pod or a Shuttle. Yes, you can do whatever you would like to do in space in a pod or a shuttle or any other businesses in station while being -10, but allowing a -10 criminal player into high sec in a pvp fitted Destroyer is the same as allowing Osama Bin Laden to take a plane to USA and freely run around with his guns there, which are stupid. If you are a criminal, you should be treated as an actual criminal, which is the whole point.
"should" I really hate it when people use this word. Your entire statement is all opinionated and you are entitled to that. These are things that "should" happen from ganking:
I "should" lose the ship I use to gank I "should" lose security status I "should" earn a kill right I "should" earn a 15 minute criminal timer
Your use of the word should suggests that there is a bug, or a manipulation people are using to perform these acts when in all reality they are legitimate legal tactics. If your going to make an opinion, own it. |
Lei YingLu
Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation
10
|
Posted - 2017.02.27 02:24:35 -
[16] - Quote
And you cant fly around HS in a Talos without having your sec status fixed. |
Lei YingLu
Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation
10
|
Posted - 2017.02.27 02:39:50 -
[17] - Quote
Erich Einstein wrote:Lei YingLu wrote:And you cant fly around HS in a Talos without having your sec status fixed. But you can fly gank ships in highsec without fixing you status and that is the issue here.
Yes that may be true but you have to bring 3 times as many people to perform it as a result. And that is just the people that are doing DPS let alone the rest of the support fleet. |
Lei YingLu
Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation
10
|
Posted - 2017.02.27 02:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
Erich Einstein wrote:Lei YingLu wrote:Erich Einstein wrote:Lei YingLu wrote:And you cant fly around HS in a Talos without having your sec status fixed. But you can fly gank ships in highsec without fixing you status and that is the issue here. Yes that may be true but you have to bring 3 times as many people to perform it as a result. And that is just the people that are doing DPS let alone the rest of the support fleet. I know you are goons so you can only have one type of public opinion on it... but I think you understand why the OP was made.
My opinions do not reflect that of my corp or my alliance. They are only my opinions as a player. This thread is a discussion in which I stated my opinions and you defended yours. The fact that I am a Goon does not mean that I HAVE to act, believe, or behave a certain way. |
Lei YingLu
Tritanium Industries and Technology Goonswarm Federation
11
|
Posted - 2017.02.27 03:23:45 -
[19] - Quote
Redacted |
|
|
|